[Poking, the last person he was really open with. The person he had cared the most about for the longest time.]
Then it was time to go after the gang, and Macaque was basically flaunting what he was doing with Red Son...after saying so many horrible things around you...and basically making me feel like my loss didn't matter...and...I thought we had been making progress before that. Before here.
And we started fighting when the job was done. Like we were telling two different stories. I was talking about him leaving me behind for more than 500 years. He was talking about what happened when I chose to seriously injure him to protect my new friends.
And I don't know if he meant to, it didn't matter in the moment...Red Son took his side. And everything went into no context theater after that.
[ She can see why Macaque and Red Son get along so well, they both have a Wukong Can't Do Anything Right mental filter. ]
[ (Also, how did Macaque even know that Saya said she accepts Wukong as he is? Did Red Son tell him? If so she'd be furious, but she tucks it away for now.) ]
I have a couple of questions, but I want to let you get everything out first.
[ She nuzzles her way into whatever area is most accessible. Purring slightly, an attempt at comfort. ]
[He actually tilts his head so she can nuzzle his chin.]
The last thing I remember doing was calling him out on why he has anything to do about me given the message he clearly sent the last time he came around.
Then Red Son said I was going into extremes.
I think that's when I lost it. Everything was just feelings and faces after that.
Macaque turned up here after that. We talked a little. He apologized. I apologized. I asked us to put off any in-depth talks so I don't ruin it because I don't feel in control of myself for it yet.
I can see why he'd argue with you about your mutual past. But it strikes me that bringing me up is a total outlier there. I mean, where did that come from? Why would he make a point to insult someone he doesn't even know and be so bothered about my accepting you?
The only answer I can figure is that he thinks you're moving on without him and it hurts him. I know the way he reacted wasn't kind, or fair, or reasonable. But trust me that nothing inspires irrationality like jealousy.
Because he didn't go back after you fought? [ She's taking a guess. ]
That could be a lot of things, including stubbornness if he's prone to that. Or that he didn't know how to broach the subject. Or that he didn't want to get hurt again.
But, another thing to trust me on, just because there's distance, or even active arguing, doesn't mean there's less love. My ex and I fought like cats and dogs sometimes. Part of it was me being unreasonable because I thought I was a replacement for someone else, actually, sort of the reverse of how he might think he's been replaced by someone who doesn't want you to change.
I'm not saying you need to roll over and take shoddy treatment, goodness knows I would never want you hurt. I am saying that when you love someone, the simplest things can be like pulling teeth.
[ She draws a shaky breath. ] One of my partners, we couldn't see our feelings for each other until we got in a mindshare. And we got along stunningly well, never had a single argument that wasn't caused by mind control. People have blind spots. Especially about things they fear might be true.
--I just want you to be happy. And it seems like making things work there would maybe do that.
Yeah, I mean...I don't blame him for not coming back, but it still feels like a few centuries is a long time to be stubborn if you still care.
And some things happened once I was freed that I'm not really up for talking about right now...and I dunno, I just...I thought we were working toward that before we got here.
[He holds her a little tighter.]
He did ask if I thought it was too late the other day...
[ Saya shifts to press a light kiss beneath his chin. ]
Assumptions are the death of happiness when it comes to emotions. When we try to rationalize what people do with their hurt feelings in the harsh light of day, it often doesn't work out. You won't really know unless you talk to him and he's willing to tell you honestly.
--Which I'm not trying to press you into. I promise.
[ Hm? That's certainly something. ]
I'm guessing you don't know if it's too late or not. Probably he doesn't either.
But no one says that unless they're hoping, with at least some part of themselves, that there's a chance.
And, speaking solely for myself, you're well worth fighting for. Even has long and hard as the two of you have fought.
...you're biased and I love you for it. Because I know I could be the most annoyingly drunk jackass you ever knew and you'd chew me out for it and then kiss me anyway.
[But it still means the world to hear and he smiles, starting to purr as his tail wraps around her arm.]
But speaking of people being them, that is another thing I needed to talk to you about. You.
Hey, now. I happen to like annoying drunk jackassery. I'd probably be too busy giggling to chew you out, but the kissing is certainly likely.
[ She's an affectionate drunk, to no one's shock. Most other times too, as exemplified when her fingers curl to stroke his tail when it wraps her arm up. ]
Yeeeah...but you've also made it clear you REALLY like that particular booze. Anyway.
[He pauses for just a moment.]
So i heard that you may have taken a certain comment I made early on in our friendship as me pointing out the real you. Which isn't even a little bit what I was saying, soooooooo...thoughts?
I'm not sure what my liking the booze has to do with liking you. I can multitask.
[ She huffs. Displeased, but not with Wukong, since she stays right where she is. ]
I asked him to leave it alone. But that's neither here nor there.
Maybe it wasn't what you intended to say, but it's what I know. And what I have to believe. If I let myself think I can relax, get complacent, I could go out of control again.
Continuing to believe that I need to keep a tight hold on my self-control is important. The stakes are too high not to. I don't hesitate to fight or even kill when I'm myself and there's no other choice, but another senseless massacre just isn't worth it. Maybe it's bad for my self-esteem but that's nothing when measured against the potential consequences.
I would, but that actually goes against the fact that I agreed to mentor you on ways to help with that. And you're being a bit MK by focusing on the negative implications.
[He smiles.]
I'm not asking you to not consider the danger, or pretend it's not there. I've killed more than my fair share of people, mortals and demons alike for as little as expecting me to be shaken down but not actually attacking me. Barely any of them were any threat to me, so almost none of them were an instance of there was no other way.
Do you think that means it's just who I am and I could just do it again it I let my guard slip and stop thinking about it? Is it just how MK is, the weremonkey just showing him what his natural monkey form is like?
[It's a loaded question, but not in the sense that he'll judge her for it. But no matter how she answers it'll be telling.]
And maybe after I get better control, I'll feel differently. I'm open to that... I'd love for it to be true. Right now, it just isn't.
I'm not sure those are analogous examples. You made bad choices out of ignorance or what have you, and you'd do differently now, but they were still choices. You weren't unable to decide for yourself. When I'm out of control, there aren't even thoughts in my head. It's not selfishness or impulsivity, it's a frenzy that I couldn't stop if I wanted to... if I even had wants.
And with MK, the weremonkey is a curse. Something inflicted on him. My situation is that I have these predatory instincts always whispering to me. Telling me to dominate and destroy everything around me. I hate it, but it's part of me. With me, it's not an altering of who or what I am, it's removal of my control over the dark impulses.
I don't really know what MK's natural monkey form is like, but has he ever slaughtered an entire city, one by one? Stopped to hack at the corpses just to inflict more torment on them? I don't think he has, from all he's said. So it's not the same.
...That's what makes me think your training could work, because it's strengthening control that is already there, just not strongly enough. I don't think the impulses will ever be gone, there will just be less danger that they'll be able to take over.
That's splitting hairs a bit. I did it because I had a short fuse and I was strong enough to do it, or just because I was insulted. I could have chosen differently, but I chose violence and in one case was willing to bring the body to the family that missed him, where I was staying as a guest, because "Hey, yeah. I saw your kid. He was a bandit, but you can have him to bury". And I've known plenty of demons who'd do what you're describing.
It's not that far off of MK's fear in his case. He's literally afraid that he's a harbinger of chaos who will have a legacy far more destructive than anything I ever got up to. And when he last turned, he almost forgot to hold back which almost destroyed to world. So the concept is the same at its most basic.
So it's still a relevant question since we're both fully capable of terrible things and the reason behind it doesn't matter to the people who have to deal with it.
Of course it doesn't matter to the people we hurt. That's a separate thing. Being unable to make up for what I did, or you did, that's about guilt or redemption or whatever one calls it. I'm talking about preventing it from happening again.
I don't think what MK fears might happen is quite the same as what I did. Sure he needs his own help with it, whatever that means, that's definitely not my area. He has a lot of power, yes he might do those things, but imagine how much worse he'd feel if it wasn't just a fear of a possible future, but also his past. He almost forgot, but he didn't. He almost destroyed, but he didn't. Normally I don't differentiate between types of pain, I will happily help anyone through their guilt without making them meet some minimum standard of terrible before they deserve compassion, but in this case the comparison doesn't feel right.
I'm not minimizing his situation at all. I know it's hard, for him and for you. But living with the fear is not the same as living with the fear and living with the grief and guilt and horror and revulsion.
And I don't even know why. It's not like I have this different form that comes out. One minute I was sleeping, the next I was putting my sword through a mother's back and having it come out her infant's face.
Maybe this way isn't the best for my mental health, I'll concede that. It's the best I've got right now, that's all. I struggled for a long time with whether I should even be allowed to keep living, and keeping a tight hold on myself feels like the only way I can let myself do that. If it happens again... I'll break. I won't be able to live with it.
So please, just let it go. This one thing. Just while we work on my control. And then you can say you told me so until the end of time.
My point isn't that they're completely the same. It's that if it's something that you can control, it's something that you're actively working to prevent, then it's not who YOU are.
And in MK's case, when a loss of like that almost results in the unravelling of the entire universe it becomes more than just a fear. He could very well be a threat greater than anything I've ever seen...IF he continues to treat it as something to fear and resist. You're not in exactly the same boat, but the idea is to learn focus and control over yourself.
I learned control before having any doubts, so I can't relate to that part. But I can say that your stance that "This is me, I have to have ironclad control" isn't going to help you master this side of yourself. It's actually going to make it harder, and possibly easier for a snap since the tension is already there. Even with training.
[ She doesn't seem to much like what he's saying, until that last part. ]
--Really? How so?
I understood that I'd have to release that control to try and master it, we talked about that, but I don't see how my mindset every other time changes things.
[He pulls a hair from his tail and turns it into a sturdy rope.]
Let's say this is the hold you've got on your killer instincts, the thing you're using to keep that wild violent side in check.
[He winds one end tightly around his tail, the other in his hand.]
My tail is that instinct, my hand is you, and- [He starts to pull with his hand while locking his tail so the rope starts to fray from the strain.] -this is what gradually happens by keeping that tension in place. Now, you can give it slack while training, sure. [He lets the rope go slack.] But the effects are still there. And technically you can periodically repair things, but the rope can still only take so much before it snaps.
And if you've been pulling too hard- [He yanks and the rope snaps, his tail slaps the nest from the sudden release, and his hand snaps back.] -then the force behind your snap could be at best the same as any other time, and possibly worse than any other time.
Not saying it will, but it could, and I know you would be devastated.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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[Poking, the last person he was really open with. The person he had cared the most about for the longest time.]
Then it was time to go after the gang, and Macaque was basically flaunting what he was doing with Red Son...after saying so many horrible things around you...and basically making me feel like my loss didn't matter...and...I thought we had been making progress before that. Before here.
And we started fighting when the job was done. Like we were telling two different stories. I was talking about him leaving me behind for more than 500 years. He was talking about what happened when I chose to seriously injure him to protect my new friends.
And I don't know if he meant to, it didn't matter in the moment...Red Son took his side. And everything went into no context theater after that.
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[ (Also, how did Macaque even know that Saya said she accepts Wukong as he is? Did Red Son tell him? If so she'd be furious, but she tucks it away for now.) ]
I have a couple of questions, but I want to let you get everything out first.
[ She nuzzles her way into whatever area is most accessible. Purring slightly, an attempt at comfort. ]
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The last thing I remember doing was calling him out on why he has anything to do about me given the message he clearly sent the last time he came around.
Then Red Son said I was going into extremes.
I think that's when I lost it. Everything was just feelings and faces after that.
Macaque turned up here after that. We talked a little. He apologized. I apologized. I asked us to put off any in-depth talks so I don't ruin it because I don't feel in control of myself for it yet.
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Did he agree to keep it off your plate until you're ready? [ Or does she need to go turn Macaque into a pelt, cause she will. ]
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He did. He actually thought I was asking him to leave. But neither of us really wanted it.
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[ Saya might be neck-deep in her own grief right now but she still is who she is, she's quite confident about that. ]
I'm going to ask this, and it's okay if you don't have an answer. You never have to push yourself beyond what you're comfortable with for me, okay?
Do you still love him?
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[He rests his chin on her head.]
I know I miss us being together though.
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I can see why he'd argue with you about your mutual past. But it strikes me that bringing me up is a total outlier there. I mean, where did that come from? Why would he make a point to insult someone he doesn't even know and be so bothered about my accepting you?
The only answer I can figure is that he thinks you're moving on without him and it hurts him. I know the way he reacted wasn't kind, or fair, or reasonable. But trust me that nothing inspires irrationality like jealousy.
And he went to see you. Didn't want to leave.
He misses you, too.
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But it's almost funny since I was always pretty sure he moved on first.
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That could be a lot of things, including stubbornness if he's prone to that. Or that he didn't know how to broach the subject. Or that he didn't want to get hurt again.
But, another thing to trust me on, just because there's distance, or even active arguing, doesn't mean there's less love. My ex and I fought like cats and dogs sometimes. Part of it was me being unreasonable because I thought I was a replacement for someone else, actually, sort of the reverse of how he might think he's been replaced by someone who doesn't want you to change.
I'm not saying you need to roll over and take shoddy treatment, goodness knows I would never want you hurt. I am saying that when you love someone, the simplest things can be like pulling teeth.
[ She draws a shaky breath. ] One of my partners, we couldn't see our feelings for each other until we got in a mindshare. And we got along stunningly well, never had a single argument that wasn't caused by mind control. People have blind spots. Especially about things they fear might be true.
--I just want you to be happy. And it seems like making things work there would maybe do that.
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And some things happened once I was freed that I'm not really up for talking about right now...and I dunno, I just...I thought we were working toward that before we got here.
[He holds her a little tighter.]
He did ask if I thought it was too late the other day...
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Assumptions are the death of happiness when it comes to emotions. When we try to rationalize what people do with their hurt feelings in the harsh light of day, it often doesn't work out. You won't really know unless you talk to him and he's willing to tell you honestly.
--Which I'm not trying to press you into. I promise.
[ Hm? That's certainly something. ]
I'm guessing you don't know if it's too late or not. Probably he doesn't either.
But no one says that unless they're hoping, with at least some part of themselves, that there's a chance.
And, speaking solely for myself, you're well worth fighting for. Even has long and hard as the two of you have fought.
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[But it still means the world to hear and he smiles, starting to purr as his tail wraps around her arm.]
But speaking of people being them, that is another thing I needed to talk to you about. You.
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[ She's an affectionate drunk, to no one's shock. Most other times too, as exemplified when her fingers curl to stroke his tail when it wraps her arm up. ]
Me? What'd I do? [ Gently joking. ]
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[He pauses for just a moment.]
So i heard that you may have taken a certain comment I made early on in our friendship as me pointing out the real you. Which isn't even a little bit what I was saying, soooooooo...thoughts?
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[ She huffs. Displeased, but not with Wukong, since she stays right where she is. ]
I asked him to leave it alone. But that's neither here nor there.
Maybe it wasn't what you intended to say, but it's what I know. And what I have to believe. If I let myself think I can relax, get complacent, I could go out of control again.
Continuing to believe that I need to keep a tight hold on my self-control is important. The stakes are too high not to. I don't hesitate to fight or even kill when I'm myself and there's no other choice, but another senseless massacre just isn't worth it. Maybe it's bad for my self-esteem but that's nothing when measured against the potential consequences.
So I'm asking you to leave it alone, too. Please.
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[He smiles.]
I'm not asking you to not consider the danger, or pretend it's not there. I've killed more than my fair share of people, mortals and demons alike for as little as expecting me to be shaken down but not actually attacking me. Barely any of them were any threat to me, so almost none of them were an instance of there was no other way.
Do you think that means it's just who I am and I could just do it again it I let my guard slip and stop thinking about it? Is it just how MK is, the weremonkey just showing him what his natural monkey form is like?
[It's a loaded question, but not in the sense that he'll judge her for it. But no matter how she answers it'll be telling.]
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I'm not sure those are analogous examples. You made bad choices out of ignorance or what have you, and you'd do differently now, but they were still choices. You weren't unable to decide for yourself. When I'm out of control, there aren't even thoughts in my head. It's not selfishness or impulsivity, it's a frenzy that I couldn't stop if I wanted to... if I even had wants.
And with MK, the weremonkey is a curse. Something inflicted on him. My situation is that I have these predatory instincts always whispering to me. Telling me to dominate and destroy everything around me. I hate it, but it's part of me. With me, it's not an altering of who or what I am, it's removal of my control over the dark impulses.
I don't really know what MK's natural monkey form is like, but has he ever slaughtered an entire city, one by one? Stopped to hack at the corpses just to inflict more torment on them? I don't think he has, from all he's said. So it's not the same.
...That's what makes me think your training could work, because it's strengthening control that is already there, just not strongly enough. I don't think the impulses will ever be gone, there will just be less danger that they'll be able to take over.
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It's not that far off of MK's fear in his case. He's literally afraid that he's a harbinger of chaos who will have a legacy far more destructive than anything I ever got up to. And when he last turned, he almost forgot to hold back which almost destroyed to world. So the concept is the same at its most basic.
So it's still a relevant question since we're both fully capable of terrible things and the reason behind it doesn't matter to the people who have to deal with it.
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Of course it doesn't matter to the people we hurt. That's a separate thing. Being unable to make up for what I did, or you did, that's about guilt or redemption or whatever one calls it. I'm talking about preventing it from happening again.
I don't think what MK fears might happen is quite the same as what I did. Sure he needs his own help with it, whatever that means, that's definitely not my area. He has a lot of power, yes he might do those things, but imagine how much worse he'd feel if it wasn't just a fear of a possible future, but also his past. He almost forgot, but he didn't. He almost destroyed, but he didn't. Normally I don't differentiate between types of pain, I will happily help anyone through their guilt without making them meet some minimum standard of terrible before they deserve compassion, but in this case the comparison doesn't feel right.
I'm not minimizing his situation at all. I know it's hard, for him and for you. But living with the fear is not the same as living with the fear and living with the grief and guilt and horror and revulsion.
And I don't even know why. It's not like I have this different form that comes out. One minute I was sleeping, the next I was putting my sword through a mother's back and having it come out her infant's face.
Maybe this way isn't the best for my mental health, I'll concede that. It's the best I've got right now, that's all. I struggled for a long time with whether I should even be allowed to keep living, and keeping a tight hold on myself feels like the only way I can let myself do that. If it happens again... I'll break. I won't be able to live with it.
So please, just let it go. This one thing. Just while we work on my control. And then you can say you told me so until the end of time.
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And in MK's case, when a loss of like that almost results in the unravelling of the entire universe it becomes more than just a fear. He could very well be a threat greater than anything I've ever seen...IF he continues to treat it as something to fear and resist. You're not in exactly the same boat, but the idea is to learn focus and control over yourself.
I learned control before having any doubts, so I can't relate to that part. But I can say that your stance that "This is me, I have to have ironclad control" isn't going to help you master this side of yourself. It's actually going to make it harder, and possibly easier for a snap since the tension is already there. Even with training.
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--Really? How so?
I understood that I'd have to release that control to try and master it, we talked about that, but I don't see how my mindset every other time changes things.
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Let's say this is the hold you've got on your killer instincts, the thing you're using to keep that wild violent side in check.
[He winds one end tightly around his tail, the other in his hand.]
My tail is that instinct, my hand is you, and- [He starts to pull with his hand while locking his tail so the rope starts to fray from the strain.] -this is what gradually happens by keeping that tension in place. Now, you can give it slack while training, sure. [He lets the rope go slack.] But the effects are still there. And technically you can periodically repair things, but the rope can still only take so much before it snaps.
And if you've been pulling too hard- [He yanks and the rope snaps, his tail slaps the nest from the sudden release, and his hand snaps back.] -then the force behind your snap could be at best the same as any other time, and possibly worse than any other time.
Not saying it will, but it could, and I know you would be devastated.
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[ If he was trying to make her feel hopeless with that, mission accomplished. ]
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[He hugs her tight, with both arms and his tail.]
What I'm saying is that you need to rethink your perspective on this side of yourself. And that's why I offered to help you, isn't it?
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