[ Saya shifts to press a light kiss beneath his chin. ]
Assumptions are the death of happiness when it comes to emotions. When we try to rationalize what people do with their hurt feelings in the harsh light of day, it often doesn't work out. You won't really know unless you talk to him and he's willing to tell you honestly.
--Which I'm not trying to press you into. I promise.
[ Hm? That's certainly something. ]
I'm guessing you don't know if it's too late or not. Probably he doesn't either.
But no one says that unless they're hoping, with at least some part of themselves, that there's a chance.
And, speaking solely for myself, you're well worth fighting for. Even has long and hard as the two of you have fought.
...you're biased and I love you for it. Because I know I could be the most annoyingly drunk jackass you ever knew and you'd chew me out for it and then kiss me anyway.
[But it still means the world to hear and he smiles, starting to purr as his tail wraps around her arm.]
But speaking of people being them, that is another thing I needed to talk to you about. You.
Hey, now. I happen to like annoying drunk jackassery. I'd probably be too busy giggling to chew you out, but the kissing is certainly likely.
[ She's an affectionate drunk, to no one's shock. Most other times too, as exemplified when her fingers curl to stroke his tail when it wraps her arm up. ]
Yeeeah...but you've also made it clear you REALLY like that particular booze. Anyway.
[He pauses for just a moment.]
So i heard that you may have taken a certain comment I made early on in our friendship as me pointing out the real you. Which isn't even a little bit what I was saying, soooooooo...thoughts?
I'm not sure what my liking the booze has to do with liking you. I can multitask.
[ She huffs. Displeased, but not with Wukong, since she stays right where she is. ]
I asked him to leave it alone. But that's neither here nor there.
Maybe it wasn't what you intended to say, but it's what I know. And what I have to believe. If I let myself think I can relax, get complacent, I could go out of control again.
Continuing to believe that I need to keep a tight hold on my self-control is important. The stakes are too high not to. I don't hesitate to fight or even kill when I'm myself and there's no other choice, but another senseless massacre just isn't worth it. Maybe it's bad for my self-esteem but that's nothing when measured against the potential consequences.
I would, but that actually goes against the fact that I agreed to mentor you on ways to help with that. And you're being a bit MK by focusing on the negative implications.
[He smiles.]
I'm not asking you to not consider the danger, or pretend it's not there. I've killed more than my fair share of people, mortals and demons alike for as little as expecting me to be shaken down but not actually attacking me. Barely any of them were any threat to me, so almost none of them were an instance of there was no other way.
Do you think that means it's just who I am and I could just do it again it I let my guard slip and stop thinking about it? Is it just how MK is, the weremonkey just showing him what his natural monkey form is like?
[It's a loaded question, but not in the sense that he'll judge her for it. But no matter how she answers it'll be telling.]
And maybe after I get better control, I'll feel differently. I'm open to that... I'd love for it to be true. Right now, it just isn't.
I'm not sure those are analogous examples. You made bad choices out of ignorance or what have you, and you'd do differently now, but they were still choices. You weren't unable to decide for yourself. When I'm out of control, there aren't even thoughts in my head. It's not selfishness or impulsivity, it's a frenzy that I couldn't stop if I wanted to... if I even had wants.
And with MK, the weremonkey is a curse. Something inflicted on him. My situation is that I have these predatory instincts always whispering to me. Telling me to dominate and destroy everything around me. I hate it, but it's part of me. With me, it's not an altering of who or what I am, it's removal of my control over the dark impulses.
I don't really know what MK's natural monkey form is like, but has he ever slaughtered an entire city, one by one? Stopped to hack at the corpses just to inflict more torment on them? I don't think he has, from all he's said. So it's not the same.
...That's what makes me think your training could work, because it's strengthening control that is already there, just not strongly enough. I don't think the impulses will ever be gone, there will just be less danger that they'll be able to take over.
That's splitting hairs a bit. I did it because I had a short fuse and I was strong enough to do it, or just because I was insulted. I could have chosen differently, but I chose violence and in one case was willing to bring the body to the family that missed him, where I was staying as a guest, because "Hey, yeah. I saw your kid. He was a bandit, but you can have him to bury". And I've known plenty of demons who'd do what you're describing.
It's not that far off of MK's fear in his case. He's literally afraid that he's a harbinger of chaos who will have a legacy far more destructive than anything I ever got up to. And when he last turned, he almost forgot to hold back which almost destroyed to world. So the concept is the same at its most basic.
So it's still a relevant question since we're both fully capable of terrible things and the reason behind it doesn't matter to the people who have to deal with it.
Of course it doesn't matter to the people we hurt. That's a separate thing. Being unable to make up for what I did, or you did, that's about guilt or redemption or whatever one calls it. I'm talking about preventing it from happening again.
I don't think what MK fears might happen is quite the same as what I did. Sure he needs his own help with it, whatever that means, that's definitely not my area. He has a lot of power, yes he might do those things, but imagine how much worse he'd feel if it wasn't just a fear of a possible future, but also his past. He almost forgot, but he didn't. He almost destroyed, but he didn't. Normally I don't differentiate between types of pain, I will happily help anyone through their guilt without making them meet some minimum standard of terrible before they deserve compassion, but in this case the comparison doesn't feel right.
I'm not minimizing his situation at all. I know it's hard, for him and for you. But living with the fear is not the same as living with the fear and living with the grief and guilt and horror and revulsion.
And I don't even know why. It's not like I have this different form that comes out. One minute I was sleeping, the next I was putting my sword through a mother's back and having it come out her infant's face.
Maybe this way isn't the best for my mental health, I'll concede that. It's the best I've got right now, that's all. I struggled for a long time with whether I should even be allowed to keep living, and keeping a tight hold on myself feels like the only way I can let myself do that. If it happens again... I'll break. I won't be able to live with it.
So please, just let it go. This one thing. Just while we work on my control. And then you can say you told me so until the end of time.
My point isn't that they're completely the same. It's that if it's something that you can control, it's something that you're actively working to prevent, then it's not who YOU are.
And in MK's case, when a loss of like that almost results in the unravelling of the entire universe it becomes more than just a fear. He could very well be a threat greater than anything I've ever seen...IF he continues to treat it as something to fear and resist. You're not in exactly the same boat, but the idea is to learn focus and control over yourself.
I learned control before having any doubts, so I can't relate to that part. But I can say that your stance that "This is me, I have to have ironclad control" isn't going to help you master this side of yourself. It's actually going to make it harder, and possibly easier for a snap since the tension is already there. Even with training.
[ She doesn't seem to much like what he's saying, until that last part. ]
--Really? How so?
I understood that I'd have to release that control to try and master it, we talked about that, but I don't see how my mindset every other time changes things.
[He pulls a hair from his tail and turns it into a sturdy rope.]
Let's say this is the hold you've got on your killer instincts, the thing you're using to keep that wild violent side in check.
[He winds one end tightly around his tail, the other in his hand.]
My tail is that instinct, my hand is you, and- [He starts to pull with his hand while locking his tail so the rope starts to fray from the strain.] -this is what gradually happens by keeping that tension in place. Now, you can give it slack while training, sure. [He lets the rope go slack.] But the effects are still there. And technically you can periodically repair things, but the rope can still only take so much before it snaps.
And if you've been pulling too hard- [He yanks and the rope snaps, his tail slaps the nest from the sudden release, and his hand snaps back.] -then the force behind your snap could be at best the same as any other time, and possibly worse than any other time.
Not saying it will, but it could, and I know you would be devastated.
...But I want there to be some plan in place before we start anything. I know killing me will snap me out of it, but I get the feeling no one want that to be Plan A.
The plan is to help you with the control and the focus. I know you don't think your self-image is important, but it actually is more than your self-esteem.
But for a more, hands-on thing...pick someone, maybe two of us, to keep updated if anything starts making you feel that side of you stirring. For any reason. And especially when we're training or even just sparring.
That's not what I meant... I mean, of course I'll do all that.
I mean a plan if I lose it. What's going to be done to contain me. I can't really be stopped from my frenzy other than if I lose enough blood to get weak. Or I guess if there was a sedative that I wouldn't immediately metabolize. The last time they just killed me, which is easiest, but it seems like that's pretty hard on everyone.
So, planning out things like that isn't my strong point. That's more of an MK or Red Son deal. I'm good at reaction and working on the fly. I mean, I can come up with a plan that's not wrong, but I still need work.
[He thinks for a moment though, actually wracking his brain a bit.]
I do have some tricks I picked up that could definitely help in the moment though. But I need to know. Have you ever come out of it eventually on your own?
I'm good at planning, so maybe between us it might be okay. [ She's trying. ]
I had a panic room attached to Red Son's workshop. You can get into it from the outside, shut me in. It's comfortable but secure.
...No, I've never just come out of it. It takes a big shock. Death, unconsciousness in some form, blood loss until I weaken. I have no idea if I could, just that I never have.
Okay. Well, I know I can definitely both stop and get you into that panic room. And knocking you out I could manage easier than you'd think. Especially with help from MK.
I can't be knocked out with physical damage alone unless I'm anemic already, thanks to the instant healing. But if I have to heal a series of bouts of severe damage that would make me anemic. You'd have to beat me about the head for awhile is all.
Stuffing me in the panic room and waiting for me to run out of blood is probably the least difficult option, but if I get beat up a bunch beforehand it would speed up the process.
Now you're just underestimating me a bit. I might have overestimated you the first real fight, but I've mastered the art of "enough force to get the job done".
I've got you covered there, trust me. Especially since I'm practically my own army.
I was close to my hibernation then. And also anemic. And I only used a fraction of the effect my mind attacks can have because I didn't want to hurt you. And I never fight with all my abilities when I'm in my right mind because I don't want to lose control.
I know you're able to handle me fine but you can't operate on the assumptions of when we sparred or fight before. All that goes out the window when I'm out of control.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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Assumptions are the death of happiness when it comes to emotions. When we try to rationalize what people do with their hurt feelings in the harsh light of day, it often doesn't work out. You won't really know unless you talk to him and he's willing to tell you honestly.
--Which I'm not trying to press you into. I promise.
[ Hm? That's certainly something. ]
I'm guessing you don't know if it's too late or not. Probably he doesn't either.
But no one says that unless they're hoping, with at least some part of themselves, that there's a chance.
And, speaking solely for myself, you're well worth fighting for. Even has long and hard as the two of you have fought.
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[But it still means the world to hear and he smiles, starting to purr as his tail wraps around her arm.]
But speaking of people being them, that is another thing I needed to talk to you about. You.
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[ She's an affectionate drunk, to no one's shock. Most other times too, as exemplified when her fingers curl to stroke his tail when it wraps her arm up. ]
Me? What'd I do? [ Gently joking. ]
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[He pauses for just a moment.]
So i heard that you may have taken a certain comment I made early on in our friendship as me pointing out the real you. Which isn't even a little bit what I was saying, soooooooo...thoughts?
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[ She huffs. Displeased, but not with Wukong, since she stays right where she is. ]
I asked him to leave it alone. But that's neither here nor there.
Maybe it wasn't what you intended to say, but it's what I know. And what I have to believe. If I let myself think I can relax, get complacent, I could go out of control again.
Continuing to believe that I need to keep a tight hold on my self-control is important. The stakes are too high not to. I don't hesitate to fight or even kill when I'm myself and there's no other choice, but another senseless massacre just isn't worth it. Maybe it's bad for my self-esteem but that's nothing when measured against the potential consequences.
So I'm asking you to leave it alone, too. Please.
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[He smiles.]
I'm not asking you to not consider the danger, or pretend it's not there. I've killed more than my fair share of people, mortals and demons alike for as little as expecting me to be shaken down but not actually attacking me. Barely any of them were any threat to me, so almost none of them were an instance of there was no other way.
Do you think that means it's just who I am and I could just do it again it I let my guard slip and stop thinking about it? Is it just how MK is, the weremonkey just showing him what his natural monkey form is like?
[It's a loaded question, but not in the sense that he'll judge her for it. But no matter how she answers it'll be telling.]
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I'm not sure those are analogous examples. You made bad choices out of ignorance or what have you, and you'd do differently now, but they were still choices. You weren't unable to decide for yourself. When I'm out of control, there aren't even thoughts in my head. It's not selfishness or impulsivity, it's a frenzy that I couldn't stop if I wanted to... if I even had wants.
And with MK, the weremonkey is a curse. Something inflicted on him. My situation is that I have these predatory instincts always whispering to me. Telling me to dominate and destroy everything around me. I hate it, but it's part of me. With me, it's not an altering of who or what I am, it's removal of my control over the dark impulses.
I don't really know what MK's natural monkey form is like, but has he ever slaughtered an entire city, one by one? Stopped to hack at the corpses just to inflict more torment on them? I don't think he has, from all he's said. So it's not the same.
...That's what makes me think your training could work, because it's strengthening control that is already there, just not strongly enough. I don't think the impulses will ever be gone, there will just be less danger that they'll be able to take over.
no subject
It's not that far off of MK's fear in his case. He's literally afraid that he's a harbinger of chaos who will have a legacy far more destructive than anything I ever got up to. And when he last turned, he almost forgot to hold back which almost destroyed to world. So the concept is the same at its most basic.
So it's still a relevant question since we're both fully capable of terrible things and the reason behind it doesn't matter to the people who have to deal with it.
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Of course it doesn't matter to the people we hurt. That's a separate thing. Being unable to make up for what I did, or you did, that's about guilt or redemption or whatever one calls it. I'm talking about preventing it from happening again.
I don't think what MK fears might happen is quite the same as what I did. Sure he needs his own help with it, whatever that means, that's definitely not my area. He has a lot of power, yes he might do those things, but imagine how much worse he'd feel if it wasn't just a fear of a possible future, but also his past. He almost forgot, but he didn't. He almost destroyed, but he didn't. Normally I don't differentiate between types of pain, I will happily help anyone through their guilt without making them meet some minimum standard of terrible before they deserve compassion, but in this case the comparison doesn't feel right.
I'm not minimizing his situation at all. I know it's hard, for him and for you. But living with the fear is not the same as living with the fear and living with the grief and guilt and horror and revulsion.
And I don't even know why. It's not like I have this different form that comes out. One minute I was sleeping, the next I was putting my sword through a mother's back and having it come out her infant's face.
Maybe this way isn't the best for my mental health, I'll concede that. It's the best I've got right now, that's all. I struggled for a long time with whether I should even be allowed to keep living, and keeping a tight hold on myself feels like the only way I can let myself do that. If it happens again... I'll break. I won't be able to live with it.
So please, just let it go. This one thing. Just while we work on my control. And then you can say you told me so until the end of time.
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And in MK's case, when a loss of like that almost results in the unravelling of the entire universe it becomes more than just a fear. He could very well be a threat greater than anything I've ever seen...IF he continues to treat it as something to fear and resist. You're not in exactly the same boat, but the idea is to learn focus and control over yourself.
I learned control before having any doubts, so I can't relate to that part. But I can say that your stance that "This is me, I have to have ironclad control" isn't going to help you master this side of yourself. It's actually going to make it harder, and possibly easier for a snap since the tension is already there. Even with training.
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--Really? How so?
I understood that I'd have to release that control to try and master it, we talked about that, but I don't see how my mindset every other time changes things.
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Let's say this is the hold you've got on your killer instincts, the thing you're using to keep that wild violent side in check.
[He winds one end tightly around his tail, the other in his hand.]
My tail is that instinct, my hand is you, and- [He starts to pull with his hand while locking his tail so the rope starts to fray from the strain.] -this is what gradually happens by keeping that tension in place. Now, you can give it slack while training, sure. [He lets the rope go slack.] But the effects are still there. And technically you can periodically repair things, but the rope can still only take so much before it snaps.
And if you've been pulling too hard- [He yanks and the rope snaps, his tail slaps the nest from the sudden release, and his hand snaps back.] -then the force behind your snap could be at best the same as any other time, and possibly worse than any other time.
Not saying it will, but it could, and I know you would be devastated.
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[ If he was trying to make her feel hopeless with that, mission accomplished. ]
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[He hugs her tight, with both arms and his tail.]
What I'm saying is that you need to rethink your perspective on this side of yourself. And that's why I offered to help you, isn't it?
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I'm not sure I even know how to relax that control if I wanted to. My handlers hollowed me out so many times I don't even know where it ends.
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[He starts to nuzzle her hair, purring softly.]
All I need is for you to trust me, as your teacher and your friend. I want to help you through this.
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...But I want there to be some plan in place before we start anything. I know killing me will snap me out of it, but I get the feeling no one want that to be Plan A.
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But for a more, hands-on thing...pick someone, maybe two of us, to keep updated if anything starts making you feel that side of you stirring. For any reason. And especially when we're training or even just sparring.
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I mean a plan if I lose it. What's going to be done to contain me. I can't really be stopped from my frenzy other than if I lose enough blood to get weak. Or I guess if there was a sedative that I wouldn't immediately metabolize. The last time they just killed me, which is easiest, but it seems like that's pretty hard on everyone.
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[He thinks for a moment though, actually wracking his brain a bit.]
I do have some tricks I picked up that could definitely help in the moment though. But I need to know. Have you ever come out of it eventually on your own?
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I had a panic room attached to Red Son's workshop. You can get into it from the outside, shut me in. It's comfortable but secure.
...No, I've never just come out of it. It takes a big shock. Death, unconsciousness in some form, blood loss until I weaken. I have no idea if I could, just that I never have.
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So that should be fine.
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Stuffing me in the panic room and waiting for me to run out of blood is probably the least difficult option, but if I get beat up a bunch beforehand it would speed up the process.
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I've got you covered there, trust me. Especially since I'm practically my own army.
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I know you're able to handle me fine but you can't operate on the assumptions of when we sparred or fight before. All that goes out the window when I'm out of control.
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